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-- 作者： Athena
-- 發表時間： 2004/10/31 11:43pm
Question: Will U.S. President George Bush get re-elected next week? I tossed 3 U.S. coins 6 times and came up with 坎為水卦，初爻與第六爻
皆動，可變成 風澤中孚卦。 Please help me interpret this, thanks !
-- 作者： Herman
-- 發表時間： 2004/10/31 11:53pm
又一卦看美國現任總統布殊是否連任？
代貼上卦爻。 <pre>
西元 31/10/200423:43:00 Sunday 農曆 甲申 年 9 月 18 日
月柱交換的節氣日為：寒露(西元 2004年10月8日)
【四柱】 甲申年 甲戌月 癸未日 丙子時 【四柱】【空亡】 【星 煞】 【月 建】 【日 辰】
時日月年 空 驛桃貴羊祿劫 旺相休囚死月 生旺墓絕
亡 馬花人刃神煞 破
丙癸甲甲 申 卯 土金火木水辰 木
子未戌申 酉 巳子巳丑亥申 29坎為水：坎水本宮卦 61風澤中孚：艮土游魂卦 【六獸】【伏 神】 【本 卦】 【變 卦】
白虎 世 兄弟 ─ ─ 戊子水 霹靂火 Ｘ→ 辛卯木 子孫 ─── 官鬼 松柏木
螣蛇 官鬼 ─── 戊戌土 平地木 辛巳火 妻財 ─── 父母 白蠟金
勾陳 父母 ─ ─ 戊申金 大驛土 辛未土 官鬼 ─ ─ 世 兄弟 路傍土
朱雀 應 妻財 ─ ─ 戊午火 天上火 丁丑土 官鬼 ─ ─ 兄弟 澗下水
青龍 官鬼 ─── 戊辰土 大林木 丁卯木 子孫 ─── 官鬼 爐中火
玄武 子孫 ─ ─ 戊寅木 城頭土 Ｘ→ 丁巳火 妻財 ─── 應 父母 沙中土
</pre>
-- 作者： Herman
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/01 00:20am
Athena，試解此卦。 (1) 世為布殊陣營，應為克里陣營。
(2) 世爻受日月剋，無其他扶助。
(3) 應爻雖於日月不為旺，卦內有接疊相生，應爻本來會旺盛，不過元神全部入墓，於 1/11/2004日其一出墓，於應爻仍有用。 比較世應，應方較有利，
就此卦而論，布殊的連任機會不大，克里會勝。
-- 作者： JohnnyNG
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/01 00:47am
這已是我推算的第三支卦，問Bush能否連任，問卦人多是站於Bush那邊，但奇怪是每卦都是不能連，時空中問貴看"官"、"印""，此時空官印均受傷，上兩支卦都是不能連任，今次也一樣，相信都是難於連任！ 一點淺見！
-- 作者： Athena
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/01 02:11am
Herman and Johnny, many thanks for responding to my query.
I am new to this forum and was not aware that other people have already
posted similar topics. Interestingly, you folks seem to have reached the
same conlusion even though the 卦 are different. No, I'm not pro-Bush, and I wish he will be voted out of the White House
next week. However, I'm afraid that if Kerry wins, something more awful
may happen simply because his look is so melancholic.
2005 is right around the corner, does anyone remember what spectacular
event took place 60 years ago? BTW, do you folks need to know WHEN exactly I came up with this 卦 ?
In case it is material, I made the coin toss on Saturday, October 30, 2004
at about 3:45 pm (still Summer Daylight Saving Time) in the eastern
section of North America.
-- 作者： 小藍
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/01 09:41am
[這篇文章最後由小藍在 2004/11/01 10:34am 第 1 次編輯]
按此卦水氣重重，連任之象已顯於卦上。
坎卦及中孚互卦兩震相合，震為合約，其數為四。
-- 作者： Athena
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/01 04:09pm
Ha! 小藍 has drawn a completely opposite interpretation.
So, we still have two different conclusions, much like what is happening
in other postings of the same topic, and very much reminiscent of the
current situation in the U.S. At my beginner's level, I think I-Ching, the Book of Change, is NOT
really a good forecasting tool. It often gives us a somewhat accurate
reading of what is going on now, but what is going to happen in the
future remains fuzzy (i.e. it can go either way). Most "forecasts"
became accurate only in hindsight! Hence, at present, I tend
to regard I-Ching as a Book of Craps! Oh, well, perhaps the gods
do not want us earthlings to have good foresight so as to keep
their game more intriguing.
-- 作者： 小藍
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/01 04:31pm
athena，小弟無意唱反調，以卦論卦而已。另一方面，也不代表此卦會準。解這種卦無甚壓力可言，所以小弟才來插插花~ :P 坎為水，坎中陽爻剛勁，上水下水，連綿不絕。坎者習也，習即是摺，重疊的意思。流水連綿不絕，再逢占卦之時是子時，其旺可知。坎水為險，可謂愈險愈旺，遇強愈強！ 再看動爻，初爻及上爻，然而中心不變，其強可知！坎變巽，巽為入，為速，很快就會入巽。 再看互卦，坎的互卦正反震卦，震為竹，古人以雙竹合併為「約」，震為擊掌，擊掌為誓。巽的互卦也是正反震，亦有誓詞之意。俱俱兩支動爻，完全不能動搖坎水的剛勁！ 以上僅供參考記錄。
-- 作者： David
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/01 04:32pm
Athena 小姐 您好 用 "Craps" 去形容易經,未免太過份了, 我相信只是平常人未完全掌握而已
易是人生的道理,可以用的範疇是難以想像的多,我可以說,易是無孔不入的
不過後人被某些前人誤導了,所以產生對易的疑惑,或誤用,
例如京房的東西,我就有很大的疑問,不過很多人卻樂意去運用 就拿風水來說吧,我所測量的無論陰陽二宅,當從說卦上去推算,可謂百發百中
希望您也詳細參考呢 謝謝您 一點提供^^
-- 作者： Athena
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/01 08:33pm
小藍, many thanks for your detailed analysis. To all: please notice I tossed the coins last Saturday afternoon, i.e.
甲戌月 壬午日 未時 (see response # 5 above). Would this
make a difference in your interpretations? To David: From "Book of Change" to "Book of Craps" is just an English
wordplay, please don't take it too seriously. I am still quite fascinated
by 易經 , otherwise I won't spend time reading it. David said "我所測量的.....當從說卦上去推算,可謂百發百中".
Well, well, David, please enlighten us with your own analysis and
conclusion of my 卦爻 in the context of whether George Bush will be
re-elected as President of the United States. Post your interpretations
and I shall post mine (a simple and naive one).
-- 作者： 小藍
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/01 10:05pm
[這篇文章最後由小藍在 2004/11/01 10:48pm 第 1 次編輯]
如為未時，我會加上天山遯作參考。陰氣漸生而陽氣漸退，隱者漸生而顯者將退。坎卦陽勁更甚。
-- 作者： 地山謙
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/01 11:52pm
秋意將淡未淡之時，占得此大坎。 大坎成卦之時，仍在季令之際，
水受土污，可見成事手法必以不正見示。 大坎隱離，最易物慾薰心，是否成事，
當看主事人是否能持其正道於人事。 行事之象藏在山雷之中，雷在山下，其功必小，
然土受木剋，其爭勝過程必烈。 縱觀其卦，布殊若心存正義的話，可小勝此仗；
然而，當看取卦之時象，水土濁，
故最後斷其輸於自己手中。 以卦論卦，妄測而已，見笑。
-- 作者： Herman
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/02 04:22am
[這篇文章最後由Herman在 2004/11/02 04:30am 第 1 次編輯]
Athena, as on the previous 卦， I did not have your exact coin toss date and time so I picked up the post time as basic time for anaysis of your 卦. Since you disclosed the exact time in USA, there may be a different meaning on such 卦.
Well I post this 卦 again but with your exact coin toss date and time for the analysis by our internet friends. <pre>
西元 30/10/200414:45:00 Saturday 農曆 甲申 年 9 月 17 日
月柱交換的節氣日為：寒露(西元 2004年10月8日)
【四柱】 甲申年 甲戌月 壬午日 丁未時 【四柱】【空亡】 【星 煞】 【月 建】 【日 辰】
時日月年 空 驛桃貴羊祿劫 旺相休囚死月 生旺墓絕
亡 馬花人刃神煞 破
丁壬甲甲 申 卯 土金火木水辰 火
未午戌申 酉 申卯巳子子亥 29坎為水：坎水本宮卦 61風澤中孚：艮土游魂卦 【六獸】【伏 神】 【本 卦】 【變 卦】
白虎 世 兄弟 ─ ─ 戊子水 霹靂火 Ｘ→ 辛卯木 子孫 ─── 官鬼 松柏木
螣蛇 官鬼 ─── 戊戌土 平地木 辛巳火 妻財 ─── 父母 白蠟金
勾陳 父母 ─ ─ 戊申金 大驛土 辛未土 官鬼 ─ ─ 世 兄弟 路傍土
朱雀 應 妻財 ─ ─ 戊午火 天上火 丁丑土 官鬼 ─ ─ 兄弟 澗下水
青龍 官鬼 ─── 戊辰土 大林木 丁卯木 子孫 ─── 官鬼 爐中火
玄武 子孫 ─ ─ 戊寅木 城頭土 Ｘ→ 丁巳火 妻財 ─── 應 父母 沙中土
</pre>
-- 作者： Herman
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/02 04:44am
Athena, 這是用你所提供的當地時空，而作同卦的判斷，供大家研究之用。 (1) 理念一樣，世為布殊陣營，應為克里陣營。
(2) 世爻受月剋，再受日辰沖脫，表示此陣營出閘脫腳，陣腳大亂。
(3) 應爻得日辰入爻，再受爻生，無人能傷。 若用此時空之象，卦象表示布殊陣營決策錯誤，敗得更快。
-- 作者： Herman
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/02 00:31pm
Athena, The result will be coming out very soon!
-- 作者： Athena
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/02 10:33pm
Yes, Herman, I'm longing to see the election outcome!
The 2004 race for the White House is again quite exciting since
the two candidates are virtually running neck-to-neck with incumbent
Bush consistently having a 1 to 2 percentage-point lead over challenger
Kerry according to most polls. Anyway, you folks are far more advance and sophisticated in analyzing
and deciphering a 卦爻 ! I am afraid to say my understanding of I-Ching
remains elementary at the K1 level, i.e. kindergarten first year. My approach is very simple: I draw my conclusion(s) based largely
on those 卦詞爻詞. At one point, I was thinking along the same line as 小藍 --- that is
重疊的坎 indicates successful re-election for Bush. But I decided
to focus on the two 動爻 (1st & top) as well as the overall meaning
of 坎卦. They are all negative (凶) in relation to the question asked.
Therefore, I think Bush will not be re-elected as president despite
his slight lead in the polls. Then came 中孚卦 which provides
the reason --- it's a matter of trust or belief (信). By the way, I shall greatly appreciate if you folks can introduce
me to the books which cover your method(s) of interpreting 易卦.
-- 作者： Herman
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/02 11:17pm
I can know the result in the tomorrow afternoon (HK time).
-- 作者： 小藍
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/04 04:29pm
[quote][b]下面引用由[u]Athena[/u]在 [i]2004/11/02 10:33pm[/i] 發表的內容：[/b]
Yes, Herman, I'm longing to see the election outcome!
The 2004 race for the White House is again quite exciting since
the two candidates are virtually running neck-to-neck with incumbent
Bush ...
[/quote] To athena,
動爻固然重要，但卦的大象也不能忽視。先分析卦象，再分析爻象。^^
-- 作者： Athena
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/04 05:57pm
Thank you all for responding to this thread. Congratulations to 小藍 ! Your interpretation is correct. I'm impressed. 地山謙, were you trying to have it both ways ? Herman and Johnnyng, what went wrong ? David, I believe your so-called 100% accuracy mainly applies to historical,
and perhaps current, events. I think it is quite impossible to be perfectly
accurate in forecasting what is going to happen in the future using I-Ching.
I-Ching may be a book full of logic, wisdom and common sense, but
most of its content is trying to have things both ways, i.e. it often gives
positive and negative signs/words at the same time. This leaves plenty
of room for subjective interpretations. Evidently, the postings under this
and other threads regarding the re-election of George Bush serve to prove
my point. And so, for now, to me, as a forecasting tool, I-Ching the Book
of Change remains not much different from a Book of Craps!
-- 作者： Herman
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/04 07:21pm
[這篇文章最後由Herman在 2004/11/05 00:31am 第 5 次編輯]
[quote][b]下面引用由[u]Athena[/u]在 [i]2004/11/04 05:57pm[/i] 發表的內容：[/b]
Thank you all for responding to this thread.
Congratulations to 小藍 ! Your interpretation is correct. I'm impressed.
地山謙, were you trying to have it both ways ?
Herman and Johnnyng, wh ...
[/quote] We are not god.
卦 is not 100% correct. Even you could analyse the 卦象, it might not be 100% correct.
If the 卦 did not match the reality, then it would give out incorrect 象.
Never mind, I would continue to do research on the correct way on analysis of 卦象.
The most important thing is not just give out an answer "yes" or "no". it is a matter of probability only. Whatever how you say about the 卦，we both have 50/50 chance to get the correct answer.
What I concern is how to read out the whole 卦象. It is my aim.
Very happy to have communication with overseas.
-- 作者： YELL
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/04 10:53pm
Athena, Accuracy depends on:
1) interpretation method: there are at least 3 methods (易卜、梅花心易、卜筮) to interprete a 卦. Application of different methods will render different implications, sometimes may even be opposite. If you want to ask which is the best, I would say all of them are. It is because 卦 acquired also varies with acquisition methods (tossing coins, the moment triggered, randomly pickup with computer, etc.).
2) reality. If you ask ‘Is there anyone dare to claim his interpretation history is 100% accurate (never ever wrong)?’ . I dont think you would get one ‘yes’. It is because ‘100% accurate’ is unrealistic (usually we say the 卦 is not accurate in this case). If someone claims he has 90% accurate in record, I would say he is fairly accurate. I also believe the 卦 acquired varies with the interpretation method exercised by the person who gets it. Hence, I will toss my own coins when I desire to predict critical issue. Personally, my interpretation is in accord with Herman’s and Johnny’s because the implication is so obvious in view of 卜筮 (my interpretation drawn is different based on another 卦 in different topic). As a consequence, I would jump to the conclusion that your 卦 is not accurate and is the cause of the wrong implication at this time.
-- 作者： Herman
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/04 11:31pm
I wrote this and posted it on a topics of this net. It is talking about the factors that would affect the accuracy of 卦 and some incorrect method of interpretation of 卦象。 Well I paste part of it there for everybody's reference. It matches what Yell's saying. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
這篇文章，是提供給對六爻卦有基本認識的讀者參考。 簡單來說，占卜可分開為四個階段。
(1)心中有疑問，動念起卦
(2)起卦、成卦
(3)看象
(4)斷卦、解卦 許多朋友占了卦，自己去解或者是給別人去解，總會出現兩種情況：
卦很準確或者是卦有偏差不準。 其實影響卦的準確度的因素，主要問題在上述的第 (2) 、(3) 及 (4) 項程序。試想當你心有疑問，動念起卦，不論是用本筮、中筮、簡筮、手搖、米數、日期、心象觸機等方法起卦，都會有一個時段，如果在此時段，占卜者的心念，思潮起伏，萬象紛亂，自然會混亂了卦象，求出的卦就偏差了；既成卦，查出六爻六親六神，就進入看象階段，最容易出錯的是：
(a)忽略了卦本身的意義、含義
(b)看漏或看錯了本卦地支關係
(c)看漏或看錯了對日辰的關係
(d)看漏或看錯了對月令的關係
(e)看漏或看錯了變爻與本卦的關係
(f)看了一些簡單的現象，就武斷，例如卦現六沖、三刑，就鐵斷為失敗；卦現六合，必定成功等等 看完卦象，就進入斷卦解卦的最後階段了。這階段是將上階段所出現的正確卦象爻象，組合聯想，去配合現在情況，作出判斷。最易出錯的情況是：
(a)上階段的取象錯了
(b)斷卦者的智識不足
(c)占卜者和斷卦者智識及文化的差異
(d)斷卦者心懷不軌，心不純淨 對於第 (1) 項，除了是自己起卦，許多時是不能控制的，唯有第 (2) 及 (3) 項的問題，要靠個人對卦爻的認識，以增強斷卦的準確度。
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
-- 作者： 緣生
-- 發表時間： 2004/11/04 11:39pm
在卦之中，時、位是極之重要的因素；
相對而言，卦師亦然。 卦師在解卦之時，其時、其位，皆會影響判斷。 此外，正如筆者在另外的貼文有提及，
當預測一些客觀事件時，
除了解卦的人要有相當技巧外，
起卦的人由於多數與事件無關，
故起卦者本身的時、位便會不易與事件關聯。 這是極其容易被忽略的。 亦是天機所在。 一點看法。
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